Yesterday I posted a link to my Facebook page about an article posted on cnn.com entitled "I was wrong about same-sex marriage." The article was written by a former Special Adviser to President George W. Bush and I encourage you to read it: http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/27/frum.gay.marriage/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
I didn't realize that the simple text "...my God" would ignite such a discussion and while it is clear that we don't all agree, I found it very interesting and it really led to me starting this blog. It's a discussion that is to be continued, but here's where we are so far. What do YOU think!?
THE CAST OF CHARACTERS (in order of appearance):
Me Preacher Boy = Preacher Boy and I grew up in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church together and our families are still great friends. He is now a Lutheran Pastor. He is perhaps one of the most kind, genuine people I've ever met. Very smart too!
Georgia Peach = I met Georgia Peach in college and we've grown to be great friends. She is like family now! She is fiercely loyal to her friends and also extremely smart.
Pretty Eyes = I met Pretty Eyes through Georgia Peach in college and she is one of my favorite people. Unlike me, P.E. does not have an addiction to approval and isn't afraid to share her opinions with others. Its one of the things I admire most about her!
Sweet Sis = Preacher Boy's sister. I've also known her since I was a kid and again, one of the nicest people I know. Preacher Boy and Sweet Sis are just good people, plain and simple.
AND HERE'S HOW IT ALL WENT DOWN:
ME: (original post): "Interesting article written by a former special assistant to President Bush (W). I hope that all conservatives will eventually see that the slippery slope idea was wrong and that extending equal rights to all doesn't pose a threat to the institution of marriage. Why would "we" want to destroy something that we're fighting so hard for!?! Maybe one of these days my state will recognize me a real person too, but thankfully my God already does!!!!!"
Preacher Boy: When did God become a possession? (I don't really mean to be a jerk. I probably sounds like it, but I'm really writing this with a smile on my face.) Presumably, if he is "your" God, then "my" God might differ? If they are different, then is the difference allowed? Just some thoughts. :-)
Georgia Peach: To Preacher Boy whoever the heck you are, of course we all believe in a different version of the Lord. The God Chris is referring to is one of understanding and love eternally and unquestionably regardless of sexual preference. Therefore your question of "is it allowed" is moot. The God so many people choose to believe in is just and fair and offers eternal life to those who love, obey, and profess his grace. That being considered, if you believe in a God of judgment and shame then I pity you.
Georgia Peach: Chris, I think this is a great article and I hope people begin to focus on the real issues this country is dealing with instead of spending time and energy fighting something that should be considered a first amendment right. I love you and you'll have your day babe!! P.s. Miss you like crazy!!!
Preacher Boy: I made no comment regarding sexual preferences. My comment was intended to point out the irony of "owning" God. I think you said it right Georgia Peach: the God who Chris worships. I asked who his God is, so that I might examine what that God has said concerning Himself. I can tell you very clearly what the God who saved me in Jesus Christ says regarding sexual preferences. So, my question is, where does this God, I assume yours as well, reveal himself? I'd like to know.
Preacher Boy: One other note: I'm not trying to be hostile. I believe there are sincere differences between what I believe and what you believe. Furthermore, if these difference really exist, we should be genuinely concerned about each other's divergent ...opinions. Right? It's a matter of eternal significance, so, in Christian love, let's talk, sincerely trying to understand and comprehend each other's understanding of the facts and the opinions that stem from these understandings.
Georgia Peach: Where does he reveal himself? Maybe I'm over simplifying this response, but it seems obvious to me......in our hearts. Faith is all about the belief in something unknown, unseen....where else would he reveal himself if not through there. If you're speaking of literal terms, i.e. the bible, we all know the written word is often left to interpretation.
Preacher Boy: You have proposed that God reveals Himself in two places: our hearts and in the Word of God, the Scriptures. Does one of these take preference over the other? If you find your heart in conflict with your interpretation of the Scripture, which takes precedence? Or do they ever differ? Perhaps your heart and the Scriptures don't differ.
Preacher Boy: Once again, I want to be absolutely clear. I'm not being hostile. I am interested in a mutual search for the truth.
Me: I posted this with the intention of standing on my own soapbox for a moment and its turned out to be an interesting discussion - I am glad that I have such interesting friends who are firm in their beliefs, albeit conflicting at times. Preacher Boy,... you raised a good question about when I said "my God" so I'll try to answer briefly. I can’t speak for everyone, but I can most certainly say that God reveals himself to me in my heart and thoughtful meditation. I truly believe that if God wanted me any other way, He would have made me that way. Now, does that mean that I do everything EXACTLY the way God would want me to? No. I am human and by my nature I am sinful. (We can debate what is sin and what is not all day long and most likely we couldn't all agree.) What I am thankful for is that my sins, (whatever they may be) have been paid for by the blood of my Savior. I tried to *love* as others expected me to, and as I thought God wanted me to. But the truth is that I was trying to will love with my brain and I couldn't feel it with my heart. I didn't love another, and all I had for myself was hatred and disdain. Once I stopped trying to love with my brain and started loving with my heart, I came to a deeper understanding of the God of my heart and I am at peace with who I am. I want the right for my love to one day be recognized by the law, but once again love is felt in the heart and not a piece of paper... I think Preacher Boy is right - we are all on an endless and mutual search for the truth. We won’t all agree, and that's okay! Anyways... I could go ON and ON, but thanks to you all for this thoughtful discussion. I really appreciate everyone's insight!!!
Georgia Peach: Preacher Boy, that's a good question and I think most honestly what the majority of us struggle with when we question our faith. However, I tend to go with belief in both and sometimes (depending on the issue) one trumps the other. The thing with scripture and written word is, if you look hard enough and read long enough there is a different view....some choose to view only what is taken straight from the written word, as it's written, but others (as I do myself) take a collaboration of the written word rather than specific scripture that might condemn or promote something. It's more about the general message than one specific Bible verse, that might be later contradicted slightly by another general scripture. Now, that's NOT to say that I don't abide by the Bible, or believe in it's truth because I do. I just think the bottom line depends on what type of God "you" believe in as Chris mentioned....depending on that version of the Lord, then you may be able to interpret more freely than to some who believe in a more strict God with little room for interpretation. (this may make no sense, I'm not quite as good with words as Chris is, lol).
Pretty Eyes: Preacher Boy I don't know you but I must chime in on this, I believe that we as Christians focus so much on the actions or "sins" that others commit in their daily lives that it is ridiculous. There is a book that I suggest that you read it's titled... "If the Church Were Christian" . Christians need to focus on the person not the actions, and I worship Jesus Christ and I don't believe that he is a God that wants us to fear him and scare others into belief. He wants us to love everyone no matter what and walk as He did. And there is nowhere in the bible where it shows that He turned his back on anyone from whore to beggar to adulteress, no sin is greater than any other. Not to mention that your relationship with Him is a personal one, and it is Yours. No different than saying "my" mother when you have siblings. Which we are in the eyes of God right?! Chris I love you and so does MY God remain prayerful and everything that He wants will come to pass.
Pretty Eyes: Oh and Preacher Boy as far as your search for the truth I suggest you pray and ask "your" God to give you clarity and not look for it on FB or CNN.
Sweet Sis: In an effort to redirect this conversation, I never read that Preacher Boy was judging or focusing on sins of others. In fact, he was merely bringing up a question of the definition of God, nor was he searching for clarity in his own beliefs (Correct me if I am wrong, Preacher Boy). I think it is good to have these discussions with one another, as it helps to clarify where everyone is coming from. I have not noticed anything judgmental coming from Preacher Boy.
Georgia Peach: Agreed Sweet Sis, which I'm glad Preacher Boy continued on to clarify. This has been an interesting post, however while so many are quick to judge I may have been quick to defend. I've known chris for almost 9 years and I've seen his struggle in finding himself, so I'll always be quick tongued when it comes to defending him along with certain freedoms I believe we as human beings should be afforded.
Preacher Boy, please excuse my accusatory tone earlier :)
Preacher Boy: Chris: I write this as one sinner to another. You're very right, that you are a sinner whose forgiveness depends on Jesus alone. I stand in the same boat. A sinner in need of forgiveness. I also acknowledge this.
Part of the reason for this... entire discussion is to get to the point of how and where God reveals Himself. You claim that God reveals Himself in the heart. But as you also acknowledged, both you and I have differing understandings of how God reveals Himself in the heart. What arbitrates, then, between these divergent and differing readings? Shouldn't there be something outside of our hearts that distinguishes between these divergent readings?
Preacher Boy: (I hate that stupid return change.) Once again, I haven't made any comment regarding sexual choice. At the present time, I am only interested in how we know God.
I propose that my heart is inadequate for the task, in fact, every human hear...t is inadequate. I look at my own heart and realize how often I have not loved perfectly, or how often I have been angry. A God arising from my heart wouldn't love everyone, but only my kind of people. Ergo, he wouldn't be very much like the God revealed in the Bible.
Preacher Boy: Georgia Peach: Accusatory tone excused. :-) I knew that by posting, I would be opening myself up. But I also firmly believe in the need to be able to converse without throwing labels around at people I don't know. If I have labeled anyone, please ...do let me know. Secondly, I haven't addressed your comments yet, but that's because this is Chris's post/wall, and I honestly don't want to take it over. :-)
I think Chris knows that I love him. In fact, I love him enough to ask him these questions. If I didn't love him, I wouldn't bother. Like the atheist wag once said, "If you really believe that Christianity is true, then how much do you have to hate someone not to tell him about Jesus?"
Pretty Eyes: Where would you suggest I look for truth?
Me: Preacher Boy, I am not sure that there has to be something outside of our hearts that distinguishes between the different ways that we could believe that God has revealed himself in our hearts. God has made us each unique and I don't think that we will all feel the same way.
Me: I too dislike the return change! I was typing more, but I hit enter and it ended there. I've got much more to say, it's just hard to put it into a space limited here... I am full of questions and I debate God's will for me each and every day. I just pray that He will speak to me and that I will have the wisdom to know when He does! Amen! ;-)
